Crisis Happens: The Anatomy of Your Message

Mark: Welcome to the seventh episode of crisis communications with John Davies. I’m Mark Sylvester. Now let’s get started and talk with John. Welcome back to the show. John, in our last conversation, we talked about why. We talked about story. We talked about the importance of story. We talked about the emotions, but when I'm talking to people, they say, "Oh, man. That story's so long," right?

John: Yeah. I don't have time for stories.

Mark: It's like the shaggy dog story. It's just going to go on and on and on.

John: Wait a minute, that's one of my favorite stories.

Mark: Especially the extended play version?

John: Yeah. Are you kidding?

Mark: Twenty-two minutes later.

John: Yeah.

Mark: So, seriously, it's a crisis. I'm with you. Got to have a story. I want to be passionate. I want to have the why.

John: Yeah, so let's jump back to a time in history when the greatest crisis could happen to a society is the leaders die, and there's a change of leadership, right?

Mark: Sure.

John: How do you do a story?

Mark: The king is dead. Long live the king.

John: Well, the queen died. The queen and the king died.

Mark: Oh.

John: That's a fact, right?

Mark: Yeah, sure is.

John: So, how do we do a story out of that that doesn’t take a week? Well, the queen died, and the king died of a broken heart.

Mark: See, there you go. That's the emotion.

John: Right, and their number one son will be the king.

Mark: How much of that is good writing, and how much of that's great delivery?

John: I don't know. How good was the delivery? Was it okay?

Mark: It was okay.

John: Want me to do it again?

Mark: Because great writing is ... That's a great ...

John: Great writing's great, and so it's both. I've written amazing speeches. I mean, I just love the speech, and I hand it to someone and it's like— not what I imagined.

Mark: Right.

John: The applause line got (clap, clap, clap).

Mark: Right.

John: They just ... And they tripped over it, and then others ... I mean, I've watched people take mediocre speeches and make them great.

Mark: So, a constant theme through this whole series of shows has been planning. Do you advocate that people rehearse their stories?

John: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, all the time, and go deeper and get shorter and get stronger and get really personal.

Mark: How do you convince the CEO that that is time well spent, that the ROI on that time, because I'm telling you, that's a hard conversation I have with people.

John: It's really hard, so I need someone in the company that's on my side, that says, "You need to spend time with John." You need some panic. 

Mark: But again, we learn best companies plan ahead.

John: Don't ... But, you got to have a panic coming, ...

Mark: Oh, okay.

John: I had a CEO that was going on with a national show with Dan Rather on his new show, and it was going to be tough.

Mark: He knew that going in.

John: Yeah, so I met with him for a Saturday afternoon and all day Sunday with his number one communications guy. His number one communications guy had watched all of Dan Rather's recent interviews and got his latest dial down, so I didn't have to do that part because I had a partner.

Mark: That's important.

John: So, the first thing is, "Let's go," no instruction, and you say why no instruction. The greatest teacher when you're teaching someone how to speak and to speak well is a camera.

Mark: Put a camera on them.

John: Put a camera. The world today, I've got my iPad.iPro

Mark: Yeah.

John: I could record it, look at it, and I did the first one, and I so love that first one because then I could show it to them and get them totally ready to work with me because they know how bad it is.

Mark: There you go.

John: I do it at a little tougher angle.

Mark: So, I'm thinking of the person who's listening right now.

John: This one was so bad that I went to this ... I showed him his third one. This was so bad, it scared me that I did not want to hurt this man, but we got him there. He had a habit of looking down, and I got him to look up, and I made him look up a little bit. I go, "You look up enough, you're going to have little stars in your eyes, and you're going to sparkle a little bit because the lights are going to be behind you, or are going to be coming at you behind Dan Rather." And at the end, he and Dan Rather left afterwards and sat down, the two of them. He had connected with him personally, and it turned out to be a really, really good show.

Mark: So, this idea of practice, of just getting back to that with video so someone who's listening to the show's communications manager in a company, it's probably who is listening to this and has to go to the CEO and say, "Listen, we're going to make a plan."

John: I wish I could give ... It's a current client and a current project, so I can't get into it, but I wish I could because this would be the ultimate anatomy of a message, which I think we want to get into, right? It would be because he did it so well, and it was like, two, four, four-and-a-half hour sessions, and the last thing I did is I finally let him see the first one. The last thing we did, I said, "I want to show you where we've come from."

Mark: Where we've come from, yeah, right.

John: Yeah, and I learned that from a guy who teaches golf, and he had ...

Mark: The strategy of “take an early one”.

John: Take an early one.

Mark: Bank it.

John: Bank it, and then at the very end when they really got it down, show them how far they've come.

Mark: Wow. It also reinforces your value.

John: Well, there's that. There's a principle that we all have in life. It's called the gap principle, that our vision is way out at the horizon for our goal. It's way out there, but a really good goal, maybe halfway to it, and then we have that gap where we feel we didn't make it.

The way to know how far you've really come is, sometimes, you have to turn around and look backwards and say, "Wow!" So, that's what that is for me. This is where you've come. I don't want to embarrass you, but this is where you've come, and look at what you're doing right now. I mean, the nonverbals are better. I fix the light a little bit if I can in the room. I take it at a better angle for them. Mainly, I really want them to go away confident, and the early one is to get their attention.

Mark: Right.

John: So, if we're looking at that ...

Mark: So, what's ... Is this a checklistable thing?

John: I don't know. I mean, I think it's up to someone. I do it really graphically when I teach it. It's hard to be graphic in a podcast. It's a little problem for me.

Mark: I understand.

John: So, to me, it's things that are building and, at the end of the day, ...

Mark: What do we start with?

John: We have three outer rings if you're thinking about it, and then we have three inner rings.

Mark: All right.

John: They all relate to almost everything we've been talking about in the messages.

Mark: Perfect.

John: The foundation of any message that's going to work, the anatomy of any message is, "Who are you?" People don't care and aren't going to listen to you until they know who you are and know that you care.

Mark: Right.

John: So, you have to get that out somehow. Can you get that out as fast as you can say that the queen died, and the king died of a broken heart? I think so. I think so.

Mark: Yeah, it's that signature sentence, that opening thing that builds credibility. I don't know who you are, but I need to trust the reason you're doing this is because they need to trust the things that are coming out of your mouth afterwards.

John: Right. A candidate running for office, and they move to the town and they're running for U.S. Senate, they move to the state, and they move from a wealthy big state to a smaller state in the running for U.S. Senate, who are you? I’m so-and-so?

Mark: Right.

John: I was done with my life on Wall Street, and you know what? I looked around the country at the greatest places with the greatest potential that I think I could make a difference and help something, and I chose this state because this state is amazing.

Mark: That's a great opening.

John: Done. Now, who are you? What is it?

Mark: We had talked earlier when there was a disaster, and you had suggested ... I don't remember exactly which episode it was, but that someone high enough in the food chain in the company that had the credibility but wasn't the senior leader, so then you've kind of got to  say, "No, we have the attention of senior management here. This isn't just a normal deal." Got it.

John: Exactly, and you don't want to go to the top because if we have a problem, we got to go higher, so who are you? "Good afternoon. I am So-and-So. My role at this company over the last decade has been a Chief Drilling Officer. I'm one that understands how the drilling happens and what's going on today. I'm coming before you to share with you what happened in the incident we had with a pipeline leak."

Mark: So, that's the second part of the anatomy, Why are we here?

John: Why here, the why here for me, so we start with who are you? Why here? And part of the why here in many places is what's in it for you?

Mark: For you, for the audience.

John: No, what's in it for you.

Mark: The speaker.

John: The speaker.

Mark: Got it.

John: If I know what's in it for you and you're being totally transparent, I trust you.

Mark: So, we're talking about stakes.

John: Yeah.

Mark: Got it.

John: What's in it for you? I'm Chief Drilling Officer. I planned this, so I understand what's happening.

Mark: Right.

John: I'm the manager of this facility where we had a terrorist attack or some deal. What's in it for me is I own this or I manage this, and I have something going on. I talked in the earlier one with a property management company where we're facing a potential crisis.

Mark: Right.

John: What's in it for you? Who are you? I'm the owner. Everyone knows who he is. He stands up and, "What's in it for you?" His speech was, "You all know that, over the last four or five years, we've bought new software. We've tried all these new principles and, you know, there's just a point that we either need to grow tenfold. We've hit the point where either we got to be a really big company or we had to sell and merge."

"We've tried everything. I've tried everything we could, and it just, we didn't make it. We couldn't do it, and it would take an influx of money, so what we decided if we were going to be really good and all the jobs are going to be really good, we'd merge. I'm going to be here for the first few months, and then I'm going to be gone, and the hardest part of this whole deal is not being with you." You just said, "I'm going to get a big check, and I'm going to go away, but I care."

Mark: Right.

John: Interestingly, we did that one because the seller was really concerned about his employees, and it was his baby.

Mark: Of course.

John: Then, the buyer hired us to do the next five.

Mark: Of course.

John: Then the buyer hired us to do the next five because they wanted that same feel.

Mark: Because it worked.

John: Yeah. The challenge was none of the next five guys were as good as the first guy and they didn't have the heart. The deal is they couldn't tell that story. Who are you, what's your story and what's in it for you.

Once they know who you are, quickly, and how you feel about it.

Mark: What's next?

John: Now you get an opportunity to talk about what your vision is. What this is, what we're doing. In a crisis, it's a little different, but it's the same thing. What's your vision, what's your plan, how are we gonna get through this?

Mark: So it might be swift resolution-

John: Exactly. We're going to find out what happened. We're going to fix it. We're going to clean it up.

Mark: For transparency, all those things.

John: We will hold these press conferences three times a day until we have all the information we can get out. Or until you stop coming.

Mark: Sure. Because the door's always open. We already talked about that.

John: One of my greatest mentors in all of this are my really good clients. And I get to work with really amazing people sometimes. I was working with a gentlemen who bought really good mobile home parks. They needed a kick up to get to the highest level and everything to be really good. To do that, he had to invest and he was gonna raise the rates eventually. He had to deal with people. I went with him the first couple of times. He did amazing. He'd go. He'd have a meeting. What's wrong? Here's who we are. Introduce himself, his team, and we're here to find out every problem there is so we can fix it. We want this to be flawless.

They're like are you going to raise the rents? Yes, but not on the existing leases. We have some leases that you can re-up do. But yes, we will raise the rent to new people. But first, before we do anything, we're gonna make this place perfect.

Mark: We're gonna listen. Yeah.

John: Three weeks in a row, but the third week it's 10, 15 percent of the people. They say, how long are you gonna keep coming here and doing this? As long as you keep coming. There it is. You get the guy's purpose and what it is, his vision. As long as you come to tell me you've got a problem.

Mark: I'm here.

John: Some pump isn't working, I'm gonna come make sure it is. Three guys in the room taking notes, jumping into action. That's his vision. What's the vision? We're gonna figure out what happened. We will not open this plant again until we know that'll never happen again. We'll take and do a full clean-up.

If you do those, you've got who are you, why are you here, basically what's in it for you, and your vision, what's gonna happen. In the core of-

Mark: That's our outer ring.

John: That's your outer ring. Your very core is your flash of light, your why.

Mark: Right. Which we spent a whole show on.

John: Right. Then next are your stories. And you know what happens after that?

Mark: Now the stories-

John: Then we have to have the facts.

Mark: The stories, before you get to that, the stories are what you use to wrap up the why.

John: Exactly.

Mark: Right?

John: Then you need facts. You've noticed that I will quote scientific studies.

Mark: Sure.

John: Those are facts. That's what you need to do. You need to have those facts. Every message needs to be anchored by some facts that you can get.

Mark: Right.

John: And maybe you don't use it right away but you can have people ask you and share it with them. If you have to, you have facts you gotta get out and you got a story, what do you think you should do first? This is a test for you. I'm doing the Mark Sylvester Podcast now.

Mark: What's the question, your honor?

John: The question is, should you tell the facts and then give the story to relate or should you tell the story and then get the facts?

Mark: I would want to do the story first and then hear the facts.

John: Capture their attention.

Mark: But I've got maybe a controversial question.

John: Uh oh.

Mark: Have we entered an era where we don't trust facts?

John: No.

Mark: Okay.

John: No. You don't trust the person giving you the facts more than you don't trust the facts. Then we're done anyway so there's no reason to talk anymore.

Mark: Okay.

John: Political figures, certain news media, you don't trust the facts. But if you trust someone and they're giving the facts, you're gonna deal with it.

Mark: Okay. Thank you for that though because I worry about that.

John: We're in a fact-less world. The deal is you wanna tell the story first and tell the facts. The greatest example of this was a friend of mine who's told me this whole deal, I'm like oh my gosh you need to turn it around. He was sending a woman employee, really powerful, off to Japan. This woman happened to dress real high style and he was telling her how to dress. He was saying in Japan, if you wear high heels or bright colors or this, then men think you're coming onto them. And blah, blah, blah. So he did all the facts. This woman said, “Who are you to tell me how to dress?”

Mark: Right.

John: And he goes, so what would you do? I said I would say, I gotta tell you, we had a woman like you, powerful, high position, went off to Japan, you probably know her but I'm not gonna give her name. She ran into all sorts of trouble and she came back and told me that the clothes into a boardroom here, she couldn't wear there. Dangling earrings, high heels, bright colors. The men just took it wrong. That she played into it and wow, it was like a little crazy. I mean, if she was still around, maybe I should introduce you, you could find out what it is.

Mark: That message goes down-

John: Think about it. So much better. You're not saying you must or here are the facts. So story first.

Mark: Then you have this concept called quick hits.

John: I do.

Mark: What is that? How does that fit into the anatomy?

John: How long do you think it takes to make a first impression?

Mark: Boom. Again, we're gonna get back to nonverbals. I've already made a decision before you've even opened your mouth, honestly.

John: Right. 93 percent of meaning the first impression come from non-verbals. And included in nonverbals is the tone, pitch, rate, pauses, frequency of your voice, and everyone listening to this going through seven of these probably has accepted our voices so we're okay.

The quick hits are, to be able to get that first impression, which is two tenths of a second, two one hundredths of a second.

Mark: Is that what it is?

John: Yeah, today. If you ask most people, they go oh, like seven, eight seconds. No. That means by the time you stand in front of a room, it's probably already over. How many people, when they're dealing with an issue, walk to the front of the room thinking about their non-verbals verses the seven percent is what you say, the 93 percent is how you say it and no one practices how you say it. That's what you gotta do.

Mark: That's, again, why we're doing this show is because it's really important.

John: So quick hit is a verbal snapshot that hits you really quick and then lingers. 

Mark: Give some examples of that.

John: I got a bunch, but it's like a baseball being thrown into a chain link fence and it just sticks there. It's like quick drying cement that you have a few minutes to drop to your knees to write a message and then it dries. Draw your logo in the quick drying cement. You only got a second.

Mark: Is it kind of like, I've heard when they're writing a story in the newspaper, you remember newspapers?

John: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Mark: That I've got that lead paragraph. It's kind of what you're saying there. I've kinda get it all right there.

John: Right. It's almost like the headline now. It used to be the lead. And you know when newspaper stories were written, they were written with all the facts and then more details and more quotes towards the end so they could get the type and if they didn't have enough room, they could cut from the bottom. They didn't ever cut from the middle. Now, they get the stories on the computer and they can cut and paste in the middle. But in the old days, they just had a pair of scissors. They'd already had the glue on it, or the wax on it and they just trim it and put it in the paper. Not a bad way to still think about preparing a speech or a message.

Let's talk about some of these. Let's do them really quickly because I think our time's running.

Mark: Okay.

John: The first one is create a sharp contrast. We judge almost everything based on comparison or opposition to something.

Mark: We did a whole show on that.

John: We did. We did that.

Mark: Yeah, that was really good.

John: That was in our-

Mark: In our Overcome Opposition series, which people can go find on the website.

John: The idea is, what can you do as a comparison that makes what you're saying stand out more?

Mark: Do you have a crisis example?

John: Oh, one that I can talk about.

Mark: We do get into that weird, weird place right?

John: Yeah, we do. Let me do, flash, warning, warning, warning.

Mark: Okay.

John: You never want to make your event or incident look small.

Mark: Oh. Don't minimize it.

John: Don't minimize it because the number one thing people are thinking now is this is the greatest thing that's ever happened to us. You have to use the contrast principle in other possible manners. Maybe the facility, maybe the changes, maybe how you're gonna overcome it.

Mark: Got it.

John: By contrasting, you create a better image of what you're doing by having something to compare it to.

Mark: Got it. So contrast might just be in the way that you're handling this is-

John: Or that you're saying we had this much dirt removed. How do you make a contrast to that much dirt? That equals about one percent of the total dirt that we put on the property or that we had an issue with this pipe connection in the pipeline. And this pipeline is a one inch pipeline and the average pipeline that we use in this facility are like seven inches. So it's a very small pipeline, very small issue.

Mark: What's another quick hit?

John: Another quick hit is creating proverbs. We all know proverbs are really cool, right? It's a simple phrase that is really thoughtful and you catch the idea in a second. Then it lasts forever. A bird in the hand, right? You're getting to the essence.

Mark: What I'm thinking there is it's that repeatable line that goes viral, right?

John: Exactly.

Mark: It's the meme that comes out of this, that turns into a hashtag if you wanna stay. Right?

John: Yeah, exactly. And most hashtags are ridiculous.

Mark: But it works, right?

John: Think about a bird in the hand from the old days and you think about what are the great books in the Old Testament, Proverbs. Simple, straight forward wisdom for life.

Mark: Yeah.

John: And I mean, that's

John: Simple, straightforward wisdom for life.

Mark: Yep.

John: I mean, that's sort of what a proverb is. It's so simple that you get it, and then you remember it forever. Okay, the next quick hit is relate to their interest first.

Mark: Right, make it about them, right?

John: Make it about them.

Mark: Yeah, yeah.

John: How can you make it about them? Remember them first. That's a quick hit.

Mark: Okay, next.

John: All right, talk about them first. Do we have another one?

Mark: I think, yeah, one of the ones you and I had talked about was identifying the current pressing need.

John: Yeah, so current pressing need, just quickly on that is if I was standing in front of an audience now to talk about this, before I'd bring it up, I'd say, "I'm sorry. I know we're in the middle of the program, but does anyone know where the restrooms are?" As a rule, usually the women know where the restrooms are and the men, they don't plan.

They say, "It's over there. Go out the door, and then down the hallway, over to the right."

You go, "When did you first notice?"

They go, "Well, you-"

I go, "When you had a current pressing need." I mean, that's a pretty serious need, right?

Mark: Sure, absolutely.

John: It occupies your mind.

Mark: Yes.

John: Almost all of our current pressing needs occupy our mind. That one becomes physical, as well as in our mind, and you've got to take care of it. What's the current pressing need people have, different than their interests? What's going on with them that you need to deal with? How do you know that?

My favorite deal ... I spoke at the Public Affairs Council about doing Grass Roots. I went into a program from a woman who was talking about speaking skills. She had a book, and it was a neat, little book. I picked up the book as we were waiting. One of the things she said, "Know your audience," like what I'm saying here. Know the current pressing needs. Relate to them. The second one is, "Don't use technology, unless you have it totally down." She was fighting a problem with her technology, which she didn't know how to do it, because she didn't have ... and the people there didn't know how to do.

She just said, "Why don't we just get to know one another? I have no idea who you people are." Even those of us, who do this for a profession, blow it sometimes. You can't lose that, so what is the current pressing need of the people in the room? What is it? If it's a safety or environmental issue, it's pretty straightforward.

Mark: Sure, well again, that's going to get to hazard, and those things that we've talked about before.

John: Right, yeah, exactly, or if it's a storm, or if it's a threat of something, but it's not in the environmental/safety, some ... You've got to know what their interest is. The next quick hit is sometimes you've just got to change the focus of the debate.

Mark: It's flip the focus?

John: Flip the focus. Let's just say that you ... Do you play backgammon?

Mark: I do.

John: Are you good?

Mark: I'm pretty good.

John: Do you play chess?

Mark: No.

John: I do.

Mark: Are you good?

John: Yeah. You know-

Mark: You just changed the focus, so you're-

John: It's so...

Mark: By the way, you're a ninja level master at that.

John: You and I are going to play for one year's income. I need your tax return. I'll give you mine. We're going to play one game of chance. One game of skill. What do you want to play?

Mark: A game of skill.

John: No, which game, backgammon or chess?

Mark: Backgammon.

John: What do I want to play?

Mark: Chess.

John: Why, when we're in a battle with someone, why do we go to their agenda of debate? Why do we go to their game? Why would I play backgammon?

Mark: Yeah, no, that's what I play.

John: I've got to change the agenda of debate-

Mark: Right, got it.

John: And I've got to deal with it. I was spending a week training some candidates, one for mayor of Las Vegas, and it was very painful, because we're at his house, and he was walking around in his bathrobe and pajamas most of the mornings, and he had a pair of-

Mark: That's not real cool.

John: I'm dying, so I finally get back home. I'd go to the grocery store, in my bachelor days, and I'll never forget this, because I was just so ... just wanted to be with nobody. I went in there. Home cooked meal ... I got the pre-done pasta. I got the pre-done pasta sauce. I got a salad. I could do a salad dressing myself. I'm in line. I can carry them all in my hands, right? This woman, busy, busy line. This woman comes in. I'm just about to go forward, and she's got a little basket, but it's pretty full.

"Oh, my gosh, I'm so ... I'm in a hurry. I'm in a hurry, in a hurry. Can I go ahead? Can I go ahead?" Do you ever have that happen?

Mark: All the time.

John: Yeah, so if I said, "No," what happens?

Mark: Well, you're just not a nice human.

John: Yeah, so how do I become a nice human?

Mark: "Please."

John: Okay. What I said was, "Ma'am, I've got to tell you. I have no problem with you going ahead of me, but I can't speak for the 12 people in line behind me."

Mark: Oh, "So go get their permission."

John: Meanwhile, I'll be checked out. I changed the focus of debate, from me being a jerk and frustrated with her, to me being kind to all the people behind me that I don't have the right to talk for. Does that make sense?

Mark: That's a level of awareness that's just amazing.

John: Yeah, it's a little crazy, but you've got-

Mark: Last one, anatomy, you talk about being specific.

John: Yeah, so as we get older, people like you and I ... We get older, we're less specific. Kids are really specific. "I want a cookie. I want it now. Bring milk." As you get older, "Gee, honey, I'm sort of hungry, and I have a sweet tooth." 

Mark: "Don't know what I want."

John: "I don't know what I want."

"How about a cookie?"

"Yes."

Mark: We love specifics.

John: Right, so-

Mark: Being really specific.

John: And so the deal is, you want to be specific, because people will remember. I've told the story about buying ties and how many ties, and all this stuff, where I buy them, and the whole deal, and programs for years. I was speaking to the National Foundation of Women Legislators making this point. I talk about the ties, and I had a tie, and I bought this tie at the store, and I said that I'd bought seven more. At the end, I asked, "Where'd I buy them?" Everyone in the audience yells it out. "What color do I buy when I go to meet with my bankers?" They yell it out. Then I go, "How many ties did I buy?" Everyone yells out, "Seven," except this one woman, and she goes, "Eight ... You bought the one you're wearing, also."

I said, "So, what do you do for a living?"

She goes, "I'm a divorce lawyer before I became a member of Congress."

I go, "Yeah, you're looking for the dividable number, so someone can take four of my ties away," but the deal is, by doing that-

Mark: It's being specific.

John: People would remember the store, yeah.

Mark: Yes, like that.

John: I would get emails, saying, "I haven't forgotten The Tailored Man on Union Square in San Francisco, where you buy your ties, but I want to ask you a question." The idea ... People remember it forever.

Mark: Let me ask you, now that we've gotten through all of the pieces of the anatomy, is there ... Do you have a philosophy or a take on ... because someone has diligently written all of these down, or they've gotten the show notes and printed them out, and they're following along, made a checklist maybe. Is there an order? I know the first three ones: Who are you? Why are you here? What's your vision? But are the rest of ... Is there an order you want them in?

John: No, no, no.

Mark: You just want to make sure you've got that.

John: No, you don't do them all.

Mark: Oh.

John: You don't have to be specific every time. You don't have to relate to their interests or current pressing need. You should do one or the other. You don't have to do everything. I mean, what happens ... You naturally start doing it if you start. It becomes part of who you are.

Mark: You get good at this, yeah, it's just-

John: Exactly.

Mark: Yeah, exactly.

John: I do nonverbals now, without ever thinking about them.

Mark: You have me doing it. That's what's really got me scared.

John: Yeah, it's good, because as you read people, then you can change, but the deal is when you think about what you're doing, and you plan what you're going to speak, and you do it thinking about the listener-

Mark: Yeah

John: You become a very considerate person, and you have more success.

Mark: And you're back to empathy.

John: Right.

Mark: John, thank you so much. This ... We stitch all of these lessons together, we've got a really good plan. It's easy to listen to. It's easy to absorb. There's some very specific pieces to the methodology.

John: There is.

Mark: I would encourage our listener to go ... We've done a couple of other shows. While they're specific around an industry, I think they're general in the approach around messaging.

John: Do you get paid for everyone that listens? Is that why you want them to do that?

Mark: No, I want them to be better communicators.

John: All right, I want to make sure that gets-

Mark: I want them to be out solving problems and helping people, helping the organizations that they represent.

John: What do you think, for the last show, instead of doing a traditional wrap-up, that we do a show of lists of details that people should do, of all the things we've talked about?

Mark: Let's do that, a recap.

John: Recap.

Mark: Let's do that next, okay?

John: Okay, let's do that, perfect.

Mark: Thank you for listening. We look forward to you subscribing. Join us as we uncover and explain the nuances of John’s distinctive approach. For more episodes, visit thedaviesmethod.com. I’m Mark Sylvester, recording at the Pullstring Press studios in Santa Barbara, California.