Mark Sylvester: John Davies has a method, an approach he systematically developed over a career spanning three decades. He's proven it to be invaluable for dozens of industries and thousands of projects facing public acceptance. Up until now, the method has only been available to his select client list. John is unpacking his insight and wealth of knowledge to overcome opposition and earn public support for the first time, right here.

Mark Sylvester: Throughout these episodes, we'll take a deep dive, step by step with John, into his strategies to overcome opposition and create support. Nothing is free in this world, but good ideas are priceless. This show could be just the thing you've been looking for. I'm Mark Sylvester, now let's get started and talk with John.

Mark Sylvester: John Davies, welcome to the show. I am thrilled to be able to talk with you about the Davies Method that you'd been developing over how many years now?

John Davies: Three decades and maybe a few extra years.

Mark Sylvester: Well, to ... So, the person who doesn't know you, tell us a little bit about how you got started in managing communications and persuasion.

John Davies: I think I was born into it. You know, I think it's something that I started doing. You know, interesting, I spent a lot of my life watching people, in my early years, because I had a-

Mark Sylvester: Why was that?

John Davies: ... I had a speech impediment, and so I didn't talk a lot. So I watched people, and I watched what worked, and when I finally was able to overcome the speech impediment with a speech therapist in the end of my elementary school years, I ... you know, I started talking, and you'd probably say and haven't stopped since.

Mark Sylvester: Well, ironically, you're a communications guy, I mean-

John Davies: Right, so think about it-

Mark Sylvester: ... you're one of the most awarded communication guys in ... you know, in the United States, and yet, ironically, you ... you know, you started off with a speech impediment.

John Davies: Right, and ... but what that tells me, and what I've learned, is you've got to watch and listen. And so, watching how other people did things, watching how they failed, always trying to study what's happening, always listening to the folks you're trying to influence, or people you're trying to communicate with, really pays off.

John Davies: So that's really the Davies Method, and it's funny, the whole idea of the Davies Method, you know, the ... You know, for years ... The company is called Davies Public Affairs, and every client, all the people around always say, oh, the Davies Group. I don't know why we've been named the Davies Group by our clients.

John Davies: And then, a few months ago, when we first started talking about taking this to a podcast series and inviting people to come meet with me a couple times a year, one of our clients said yeah, you know, the Davies Group, they have, like, this method. I think it's the Davies Method. And so I'm like, okay, we've got to start sharing this.

Mark Sylvester: Now, with this specific series we're talking to a very specific niche, an industry that you work with, tell us about that.

John Davies: Well, real estate is the first industry that we really started using this in. And, you know, I started developing some methods, and it's sort of like anything you do, when you're doing something new, it starts tactical. And as it starts tactical you start rising above it, looking at what you're doing, and you start seeing, there's a better strategic approach.

John Davies: So we had a very tactical approach to this and how we're going to do things. We're going to identify people, we're going to reach out to them, we're going to do all these little steps, but it was totally tactical.

John Davies: And so then we started thinking, you know, how do we really do this when we succeed? And how do we do this when we get pushed off our path by other people on the team while we're doing it a different way?

John Davies: And what has happened to me a lot is being asked to speak at a lot of conferences. I have to figure out, what do I really do when it works? You know, what's-

Mark Sylvester: Right.

John Davies: ... What's the success formula? You know, what feels good at the end? So that's helped us over the years to constantly develop this method.

Mark Sylvester: So, tell us ... Kind of give an overview of what we're going to do in this series.

John Davies: Okay, first we're going to look at an approach to thinking about how we do this, an approach of how we talk about it, an approach of how we develop our messaging, and then we're going to get into it and really talk about the steps of the strategy. So it's a strategic approach, and then how do you carry it out? And we break that into five steps.

John Davies: So, the first part is how do we really approach the idea of what we're doing? And it's almost as good to get in your head as it is to get on paper and on materials. And so we start with acknowledging that we're going to have an impact. If we're building a real estate project, it's a greenfield, it's a brownfield, it's an infill, we're going to have an impact.

John Davies: The next step is let's contrast the impact of doing this project with the impact of not doing anything. All of a sudden the impact looks small, and then the contrast allows it ... And we can unpack these today, as we go through these.

John Davies: Next, we really want to embrace what we're doing. We want to really embrace what it is. We want to embrace and engage people. So, embracing means this is the good things about it, let's really talk about it. Let's really get under it.

Mark Sylvester: So the first part of this method, then, is acknowledge, contrast, embrace, and bridge, and so-

John Davies: Well, we can get into bridge. So, bridge, by the way, we'll talk about this, is how people do it wrong. That's where most people start. You know, I was in an all day meeting yesterday, and I sat there, and these folks have been fighting for five years on a real estate development.

John Davies: They can't get to the first meeting, and they're starting with bridge. They're talking about ... Where we bridge the economics, that's all they talk about. And they have an amazing story to tell, they have an amazing contrast to sell, and they just haven't done it. So, literally, in the first half day, we're able to turn the project and the psyche around.

Mark Sylvester: So, in the method there, as we said, we're going to start off with, strategically, how to think about how you overcome opposition, and then we're going to use a lot of examples, right? You've been ... How long have you been doing the real estate industry as a vertical?

John Davies: Oh, 30-plus years.

Mark Sylvester: Okay.

John Davies: And so we started as a advertising PR firm.

Mark Sylvester: Right.

John Davies: I have ... My degree is in political science, so we really got involved in politics, eventually, and, you know, I think it was just an itch that I had to scratch and get into, and we did that. And then if you take what we did in politics, which is a lot of grassroots, and a lot of branding, and combine it with advertising, all of a sudden we're at the beginning of public affairs.

John Davies: There are some great guys who are out there doing it, and we're right behind them, we just happen to be doing it out of a nice, coastal city in California, instead of doing it in a large metropolitan area. So, we didn't explode into the marketplace.

Mark Sylvester: John, this method has ... I mean, you're kind of famous for, what, 87% hit rate, success rate, on-

John Davies: Yeah.

Mark Sylvester: ... the projects when you get brought in. Why would you tell everybody how you do what you do?

John Davies: That's a really good question. I don't know. I mean, that's sort of crazy. No, I ... It's really clear to me, we are doing projects all over, and really bad projects make everyone in the industry bad. Plus, you know, I've been doing this a long time, I'm going to continue doing it probably for another decade, decade and a half, I would love to have a bunch of people doing this right.

John Davies: And I'm not afraid of someone using our method and going, I hope they do. And I know we continue to innovate, and we continue to change, as communications changes, and the psyche of a community changes. So, I just want people to do it right.

Mark Sylvester: But why are we doing it now? What ... Is there ... Do you feel there's, like, a sense of urgency that we get this information out?

John Davies: Yeah, I think so. I think the dialogue in our society has gotten to be so bad, and it's at a level today that you ... you have a hard time having a conversation about something with somebody that disagrees with you, and ... where in the old days we could agree to disagree, and have a relationship.

John Davies: And so I think this method gives you the ability to have a conversation with people who are in the middle, or people who are softly against you, and arm your supporters to have that same quiet, calm, logical conversation, and to be able to do it in a manner that changes minds.

Mark Sylvester: So is it fair to say that you can take a leadership role in communication ... The person who's listening can learn from this, and take a leadership role, and kind of change the conversation positively?

John Davies: Yes, and one of the keys in this is if we change how we approach this, if we change how we look at creating a message, people that are supportive of us will also change how they talk to other people. And our goal in this is not to be the only person saying good things, not the only person trying to get our message out. The more other people get it out for us, the better it is, because they can change minds that we can't change.

Mark Sylvester: I know that one of the things we talk about, you know, in this method is absolutely influencing the conversation, and I know that we're going to do an episode, probably six weeks from now, on what inspired you to actually ... You know, like, where did you get the inspiration for this specific methodology?

John Davies: Well, that session's one of my favorite, because it came at me in a funny way after developing it. It was the idea of how ... It's ... So, the idea of acknowledging that there's a problem-

Mark Sylvester: Right.

John Davies: ... contrasting it with doing that or not doing it, and then embracing the good things, and then bridging the economics. I mean, that just makes sense to me, right? Well-

Mark Sylvester: Now.

John Davies: Now, and then I look back, and I was studying through some old communications book again, and, you know, doing my refresher. I hate forgetting the things I learned before because I'm looking at the new things I've learned. And so I was looking back, and here is this whole series of chapters on Aristotle, and Aristotle's method of communications.

John Davies: And so I think that will be fun to talk about here, and I might have to go back and make sure I'm boned up on it, but if you think about how Aristotle wanted you to appeal to the logic, and to the emotion, and so how is ... That's exactly what we're doing.

John Davies: And also, how do you have an ethical conversation? Well, you have an ethical conversation by saying I'm not perfect, you know, this project is going to cause problems, there's no doubt. I mean, if you don't say that in the beginning you have to say it at the end.

Mark Sylvester: Which is why acknowledge is at the first step.

John Davies: Right.

Mark Sylvester: The rest of the show, because we'll have 12 episodes in total, the rest of the show is really going to take us down into the tactics. And I think you're also ... we're going to talk about doing it backwards. What's that show going to be about?

John Davies: Well, that show, actually, is about what I faced with the client I met with the other day. I mean, that's what they're doing. Their jobs, and revenue, and ... Jobs and revenue, and it's ... Everything's perfect. And so they start with the economics, which is a bridge, and then they start embracing the project, and then they'll say, well, this is better, and then they start complaining about the opponents, and then they finally get to the end say yeah, well, we're going to have some impacts. So, I mean, it's a total different backward method. So we'll unpack that, and we have neat little names there that ... We'll do it.

John Davies: But, I mean, what we find is people start doing a project and they go, well, we got to talk to that guy, and this guy, and we need a flyer, and we need something to say this, and we aught to do a presentation. Let's get a presentation done, and can we ... Didn't your brother-in-law's sister have a presentation they did? And can't we get a graphic done?

John Davies: And sometimes they're really pretty, but no one starts with a message. And think about it, that you're trying to communicate something, you've got to start with a message, and that's what this first series is about, to come up with a message that is motivating.

John Davies: And so the message both deals with a community ... So what's a community's dreams and fears? And we'll talk about that. And then what is the moral case for your project? So you take the community's dreams and fears, which we'll talk about when we unpack the rest of it at the end, you add that to your moral case, and you ...

John Davies: I mean, literally, we'll make five bullet points, six bullet points of each, tops, and then we marry those two things and write a paragraph, and it sounds horrible. And then we take that paragraph and we write it again. And then we take that paragraph and write it a third time, and maybe have to do a fourth time. You now have a message.

Mark Sylvester: And that's where you start?

John Davies: That's where you start, but the deal is, where you start is you've got to understand the community, what are their concerns? And then, second, you've got to understand, what's your moral case within that? They're two different steps, and when you marry those two issues, and I'll give an example, and we'll walk through it and be able to really show how that works.

Mark Sylvester: One of the things I love about the show is the case study aspect of it, right? That we're ... Because you've done this for so many years, we've seen what works and what doesn't work, and so the people that are listening, just so they understand a bit about the format is there's kind of a core idea, if you will-

John Davies: Right.

Mark Sylvester: ... for each one of the shows, which we then unpack, and ... through stories, and then I like these teachable moments. Like, what's that nugget that they can learn-

John Davies: Right.

Mark Sylvester: ... from their-

John Davies: Right, right, right.

Mark Sylvester: ... If you ... I mean, imagine, you know, you're now Professor Davies and you're ... you know, you're teaching the course, but that each show, what we're going to do is give people something that they can do, and a takeaway. Like, something they can do today, because I know, in setting up the show, you were really very concerned that people just didn't listen and leave. You want them to listen, learn, and do something.

John Davies: Right, so the words of wisdom that we can share here aren't mine, they're words of wisdom I've learned from amazing professionals all over the country, and from the reading, and from things that I've gone through.

John Davies: So, the thing to take away, to the show, is the biggest obstacle to you succeeding and entitling a real estate project is your frame of mind. So the number one thing you've got to change is how you approach it. You have to change how you're going to look at this, how the company you're working for looks at it, and how you message what you're doing, but you've got to change yourself.

John Davies: So, I love ... I love great quotes, and I love the quotes when they're from someone from the ... you know, the past, that you don't expect to have a great quote in this area. So, George Bernard Shaw said progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything. So the idea here is if you can't change your mind of how you're going to approach this, you're not going to change anything.

Mark Sylvester: And in the act of ... To overcome opposition, we're wanting to change opinion, and change peoples' minds.

John Davies: Right, starting with your own.

Mark Sylvester: And I have always said, the first sale is to yourself.

John Davies: Always.

Mark Sylvester: And if you're looking at a ... Let's take this group that you've just met with recently, and you know that you've got to get them to change their mind. In your experience, when you get dropped in you've got to overcome opposition with your client, which is-

John Davies: [inaudible 00:16:44]

Mark Sylvester: ... kind of hilarious, how long does it really take for that concept to get woven into the fabric of how an organization thinks and behaves?

John Davies: Oh, forever. It's a constant thing, and a constant reminder, and we have to constantly be going there, because they have an approach that has been ingrained, and that you have to constantly be doing it. I have to always go back to it.

John Davies: I mean, you know, the other day my deal was, you know, we're focusing on what's happened in the last 90 days. You've been at it five years, there's been a plan for this to be something for 10 years, let's pull back. What was the plan? It was for five times as many homes as what we're planning now. Why aren't we talking about that?

John Davies: Why does, you know, 1,000 homes look so big today when they originally plan was for 5,000? And ... or, you know, we're going to do 300 homes, and originally it was going to be 1,000 homes. Why aren't we making that contrast to start, to show where we've gone, instead of focusing on arguing to hold on to the 300 and not go to 200?

John Davies: So, it's a constant mind thing that you have to go through with people, is that they have to know that they're going to cause the change. They also have to know that they need to tell their story, and be proud of their story, and not just go on and on with just details of facts without a message?

Mark Sylvester: So, even though this show is an overview, I'm going to call that the teachable moment, right? Our change in the mind. So, what could you do if someone ... the person who's listening right now really wants to get better, they really want to change, they want to learn from this. They can't wait for us to get going and get the next shows out there. What should they do to kind of get the right mindset going? I mean, literally-

John Davies: Yeah.

Mark Sylvester: ... and including print something on a piece of paper-

John Davies: Yeah.

Mark Sylvester: ... and put it up so you see it every day-

John Davies: Yeah, so-

Mark Sylvester: ... what would it say?

John Davies: So, first off, right out, what your end goal is, right? Do you want to build this project? So, you want to build X number of homes, you want to build this commercial center, what do you want to do? Look at that and say that if we're going to get together in five years it's going to be built and completed, that's your goal.

John Davies: So what has to have happened during that time period to make that successful? And then what are the greatest dangers that will stop you? Write them all down, everything that comes to your head. What are the opportunities that you have, that you can have, that are ... the things that get you excited that you could do? What could you do? And then last, what strengths do you bring to the table?

John Davies: And when you do that, you pick three of each. You got three dangers, three opportunities, three strengths, and you look at that list, now we're going to start a process.

John Davies: And, so, it's called DOS, it's like SWAT. I like it better because it's three things, and they're distinct and easy to understand. It was created by the strategic coach, Dan Sullivan, this strategic coach, and, you know, since I've been ... since I've known him, and gone to the program for 15 years, I've used DOS, and it's changed how we look at things. Three dangers, three opportunities, three strengths.

Mark Sylvester: And that's woven into the entire method.

John Davies: It totally is, and that helps you do it, but usually we do it like we just did, and then, after we do our research, we do it again. And then we tie that into how we create a moral message, a moral case, a moral message, a value based message. And we take that ... And we're also now looking at, so what is the community worried about? What do they dream about, unrelated to us? But could be related to us.

John Davies: And as I said before, we stitch that together. We marry those together, and we create a message, and I will give you an example of that.

Mark Sylvester: John, this ... I can't wait to get started. The Davies Method, this podcast, is available at TheDaviesMethod.com, you want to make sure you go there and subscribe so that each week when a new show comes out in this first season, that you don't miss it, you're going to get it, and then you can go and share it with people.

Mark Sylvester: John, thanks so much. I look forward to getting started with you.

John Davies: Yeah, let's go.

Mark Sylvester: Thank you for listening, it's now your opportunity and responsibility to use the method today. You've completed one segment toward understanding the Davies Method. We look forward to you subscribing. Join us as we uncover and explain the nuances of John's distinctive approach. For more episodes, visit TheDaviesMethod.com. I'm Mark Sylvester, reporting at the Pull String Press Studios in Santa Barbara, California.